tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8278366793340877738.post4155823645315081646..comments2023-11-02T10:43:15.185+00:00Comments on DENVERSTROPE: Liddle the Umpire: Love-AllUnknownnoreply@blogger.comBlogger11125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8278366793340877738.post-7217652064718965762009-12-01T18:58:12.890+00:002009-12-01T18:58:12.890+00:00I do, Tom. And thanks for the clarification about ...I do, Tom. And thanks for the clarification about the Rod's Liddle post. Fair commment and on reflection, you are right and I am wrong - at least about that. But I wasn't *that* hard him, was I?<br /><br />It is probably very hard to tell from this particular blogpost, but I am a fan of Rod Liddle's: I've warmed to his take on the world over the years, and to his writing generally.<br /><br />I therefore look forward with anticipation to his adjudication on the fishy science ;)Jon Lishmanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07272058035800593800noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8278366793340877738.post-39279376037198981342009-12-01T03:16:09.702+00:002009-12-01T03:16:09.702+00:00sorry, thte list of fads got interupted - hope you...sorry, thte list of fads got interupted - hope you see what I mean...Tom Forrester-Patonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10470144057451807560noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8278366793340877738.post-52661894595316861952009-12-01T03:14:50.903+00:002009-12-01T03:14:50.903+00:00Deverthen - you seem to me to have missed the poin...Deverthen - you seem to me to have missed the point of Liddle's piece - he clearly states that the piece is NOT about the science, which he is studying, and to which he promises to return, but about the "proxy data", the social/philosophical characteristics of what he correctly sees as merely the latest of a series of millenarian, apocalyptic fantasies subscribed to by "right-thinking" people. I give you:<br /><br />*Eugenics<br />*the DDT scandal (20m Africans died of malaria because middle class white people thought DDT was bad for their birdlife)<br />*the population explosion;<br />*global cooling;<br /><br />The cod science, which I am am sure Liddle will get around to - and it will be worth the wait - merely tells us why the doomsayers were deluded THIS time. Understanding the sources of the abject silliness that allowed AGW to flourish may tell us something about how to spot the NEXT fad.<br /><br />*Y2K;<br />*global warmingTom Forrester-Patonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10470144057451807560noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8278366793340877738.post-15433847794282634922009-11-29T00:05:21.160+00:002009-11-29T00:05:21.160+00:00"...an angry monologue on how our troubles co..."...an angry monologue on how our troubles could best be adressed by nailing cetain people to firewood and the frustration caused by this not being allowed..."<br /><br />...and precisely that should be your profile message :)Jon Lishmanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07272058035800593800noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8278366793340877738.post-17042426424126512672009-11-28T23:26:04.191+00:002009-11-28T23:26:04.191+00:00You're more than welcome to use, reuse, paraph...You're more than welcome to use, reuse, paraphrase or anything else you want with whatever I say! I'm way too unreliable to have a blog of my own. <br /><br />Also, it'd likely degenerate into an angry monologue on how our troubles could best be adressed by nailing cetain people to firewood and the frustration caused by this not being allowed =)black hole sunsethttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13754977921603292534noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8278366793340877738.post-64496764601527171092009-11-28T21:46:45.365+00:002009-11-28T21:46:45.365+00:00The irony would be lost on them, sadly.
I wish yo...The irony would be lost on them, sadly.<br /><br />I wish you would start a blog, BHS. Your thoughts need to be read by more than the half dozen or so folks who stumble on this one every day.<br /><br />You know what, if you don't start one, I'll just start using you as a content source! <br /><br />;)Jon Lishmanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07272058035800593800noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8278366793340877738.post-55291780803797637892009-11-28T12:51:13.439+00:002009-11-28T12:51:13.439+00:00That's way to kind Mr D, I didn't know abo...That's way to kind Mr D, I didn't know about Karl Popper directly (and him a half namesake) but I've just read the Wiki page on him and it's a real eye-opener. Bizarrely, perhaps, I picked up the falsifiability criteria from Penn Jillette, of Penn & Teller, as a closing remark on one of his "Penn Says" video shorts (can't find the actual vid, unfortunately):<br /><br /><i>"Because if you don’t have something that can disprove what you believe then you are believing in anything ... it must be falsifiable, you know, if something causes everything then it causes nothing.<br /><br />I am not crazy enough to come out against global warming or even man-made global warming (I just don’t know enough) but man! I wish they would try to convince me, stop exaggerating in order to clarify, because all it does is give me less trust, and I also wish they would stop saying that everything is because of (caused by) global warming, because if everything is because of (caused by) global warming then nothing is."</i><br /><br />As if to prove that Hadley and the Met intend to carry on as they are, there is this: <br /><br />http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/environment/article6930523.ece<br /><br />Vicky Pope (head of climate change advice at the Met) said <i>"... the Met Office was more than 90 per cent certain that human activities were to blame ... (but) there was no need to review data from the university."</i><br /><br />Why would that be, exactly?<br /><br />I think the truth is that we can very safely conclude (subject to reasonable falsification, of course) that AGW alarmists are a mixture of zany halfwits and money-grubbing BS merchants. Their behaviour and secrecy are, in an of themselves, sound evidence against their claims!<br /><br />It seems well demonstrated that the deluded are quite prone to unintended irony =)black hole sunsethttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13754977921603292534noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8278366793340877738.post-67975814958369043742009-11-27T22:04:07.625+00:002009-11-27T22:04:07.625+00:00BHS, you clearly know your Karl Popper!
What you ...BHS, you clearly know your Karl Popper!<br /><br />What you say, as always, is copperbottomed-sound - and extraordinarily well-expressed.<br /><br />What I think has been unleashed by these tremendous, well-timed leaks is no more and no less than...doubt. Doubt that will never go away until it's defeated precisely in the way that you describe. (I suspect it won't be.)<br /><br />That doubt is, in reality, integrity, honesty and a reassertion of that which all good people seek to be: innocent! Might sound a bit odd, that, but it applies to anyone and everyone in every thing they/we seek to do, think and say.<br /><br />People love the truth (I do), and if for one moment they are moved to believe that they have been given the lie, for whatever reason or motive, however well-meaning (that's the most dangerous kind of deceit!), they will be restless.<br /><br />After "climategate", I'm bloody resteless.Jon Lishmanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07272058035800593800noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8278366793340877738.post-20781640530470584302009-11-27T21:23:40.570+00:002009-11-27T21:23:40.570+00:00One thing that's still missing from the non-sc...One thing that's still missing from the non-sceptic axis - even those who've made some kind of belated concession to good faith scientific practice - is that, in future, all data, methods, code and relevent supplemental material must be released promptly so that any third party, antagonistic or otherwise, can understand the process and reproduce exactly the same results from scratch.<br /><br />If the disclosure issue isn't addressed now and this particular release of Hadley data isn't enough to kill the hysterical, Big Money, pro-AGW movement with one blow (I seriously doubt that it is), I fear that nothing lasting will have been achieved.<br /><br />Hadley et al will continue to churn out their pronouncements which, by any objective standard, and regardless of where one stands of the AGW issue, NO ONE should believe, because they've chosen to deny everyone outside of a sympathetic clique the opportunity to falsify their claims on the basis of identical data and alternative interpretations.<br /><br />I'd be interested to know what Monbiot, Liddel and other renowned journalistics talents have to say on the matter. They can't reasonably object, can they?black hole sunsethttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13754977921603292534noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8278366793340877738.post-21878568189186520872009-11-27T18:42:39.894+00:002009-11-27T18:42:39.894+00:00Lol. I think that's fine, and at least you'...Lol. I think that's fine, and at least you're honest about your position. I'm just not convinced that Liddle is, you see. <br /><br />I know I've been pretty heavy duty with this stuff recently, but all I've just been trying to even things up a bit, if you see what I mean. And in the absence of any UK MSM coverage - anywhere - of this scandal, then I think it's fair game for bloggers, especially sceptical ones (though not, in truth, radically sceptical in my case).<br /><br />Ultimately, Liddle is right about one thing: everyone has a right to his opinion on this, especially when the scientific understanding is still palpably so incomplete (that's the real lesson of Climategate). But it's that last point ("incomplete understanding") that makes the warmist-alarmists go absolutely bananas - every time. That makes me kind of suspicious about their agenda, to be frank.Jon Lishmanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07272058035800593800noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8278366793340877738.post-65385882708106262132009-11-27T18:33:40.310+00:002009-11-27T18:33:40.310+00:00I'm a climate change agnostic I'll believe...I'm a climate change agnostic I'll believe it if they can prove it without equivocation (or a foot stamping hissy-fit with some socks and sandles wearer screaming 'We're all going to die!').Robhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10904181998734097782noreply@blogger.com