tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8278366793340877738.post8689267182213241967..comments2023-11-02T10:43:15.185+00:00Comments on DENVERSTROPE: I Don't Like To Say...Unknownnoreply@blogger.comBlogger7125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8278366793340877738.post-713743440152191152009-11-07T17:34:51.931+00:002009-11-07T17:34:51.931+00:00HBW, I like good/fair comment no matter how long (...HBW, I like good/fair comment no matter how long (or short it is). And that's a great/very fair comment.<br /><br />Anon, I didn't blog about that poll for two reasons: 1) It's most likely partly due to a belated reaction to the Griffin QT factor, among others factors, and 2) It's not a mainstream poll - it's done by a new company who would be the first to admit has an unsettled polling methodology. In addition, there was a YouGov poll the day before which showed a continuing, stable Tory lead.<br /><br />Besides, the poll in the Spectator to which I referred is far more reliable, targeted as it was to the EU issue. I therefore maintain that it proves my point in this blog.Jon Lishmanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07272058035800593800noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8278366793340877738.post-10955620649558146382009-11-07T12:14:48.489+00:002009-11-07T12:14:48.489+00:00Surely Labour benefitting from Cameron's E.U. ...Surely Labour benefitting from Cameron's E.U. announcement was never going to happen anyway? With the public becoming a little fed up with what they see as more promises broken on Europe, it is the more nationalist parties that were always going to benefit.<br /><br />PoliticalBetting.com demonstartes this with its latest poll - Tories down 2 and both UKIP and BNP up 1 each.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8278366793340877738.post-63545382954797775072009-11-07T09:36:15.791+00:002009-11-07T09:36:15.791+00:00"Do you know something, I reckon de Gaulle, f..."Do you know something, I reckon de Gaulle, far from being the severest critic of Britain so many here still believe he was, he might simply have understood what you alluded to in your first class post: that European integration is quite simply incompatible with the British body politic and psyche."<br /><br />That's an intriguing idea but I can't quite bring myself to agree with it. I think, as you say, de Gaulle knew that Britain would likely prove a barrier to European integration and that it would resent attempts to enforce it, but equally I think he always resented us on a personal level due to the fact that he needed our help in 1940 to continue his fight against Nazism - he was a very proud man and it hurt. He should have blamed his own politicians and generals for that, who didn't listen in 1935 when he warned them of what would happen, but he didn't. Irrational, but understandable.<br /><br />" And yes, the British mindset is totally at odds with the European federalists, because fundementally we don't like being told what we can and can't do by foreigners"<br /><br />Uncle Bob - that is I would suggest, partly because it's a very long time since we've been militarily occupied by another power, whereas every other country in Europe bar Russia has been invaded and conquered at least once since 1789. The English Channel means we're out of practice at being ground underfoot!<br /><br />Hope you don't mind such a long comment Denverthen.The Half-Blood Welshmanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05072936624444891100noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8278366793340877738.post-77946293572795019482009-11-06T19:06:19.720+00:002009-11-06T19:06:19.720+00:00" *Just about* every British leader", UB..." *Just about* every British leader", UB ;) Mrs T was the exception - but even she failed to hold back the EU storm surge in the end (and it cost her her job too, sadly).<br /><br />In other words, I agree with everything you say, natch!Jon Lishmanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07272058035800593800noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8278366793340877738.post-35477404308463751132009-11-06T18:57:15.527+00:002009-11-06T18:57:15.527+00:00I don't know, what about Thatcher?...though th...I don't know, what about Thatcher?...though the British psyche she was in touch with probably came from someone like Boudicca. And yes, the British mindset is totally at odds with the European federalists, because fundementally we don't like being told what we can and can't do by foreigners...our natural place is to be the ones giving the orders. The only reason the rest of the EU wants us in is because of the military protection we provide them all with and because we're the only country in the EU that influences every corner of the world. Do you think the chinese give a monkeys about upsetting the French or Germans? No chance...but they would be more careful around the British, even a skint, on it's arse Britain is something to be wary of diplomatically.Robhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10904181998734097782noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8278366793340877738.post-62374303830703766892009-11-06T17:19:52.306+00:002009-11-06T17:19:52.306+00:00Yes indeed. Cameron and co. have a great deal of t...Yes indeed. Cameron and co. have a great deal of thinking to do - but there's little sign of that happening just now, as you say. But I firmly believe they have a majority of voters' good will on their side now, and rightly so.<br /><br />It might yet come down to an in or out issue whether anyone likes it or not. The French and German governments seem quite willing to back Britain into a corner on this, instead of doing what they should always have done, and accommodated the Anglo-Saxons as best they could.<br /><br />Do you know something, I reckon de Gaulle, far from being the severest critic of Britain so many here still believe he was, he might simply have understood what you alluded to in your first class post: that European integration is quite simply incompatible with the British body politic and psyche. I'm probably wrong - but it's an intriguing thought. It also says a heck of a lot about the (low) level of comprehension of the nation's character of just about every British leader since Heath. Curious.Jon Lishmanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07272058035800593800noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8278366793340877738.post-13943225130380539422009-11-06T16:57:31.222+00:002009-11-06T16:57:31.222+00:00Great post Denverthen. I think the only people who...Great post Denverthen. I think the only people who are really annoyed about not getting the referendum are those who wanted it to be an "in/out" question anyway.<br /><br />For the rest, I think everyone else makes up their minds on issues other than Europe, so the only real danger for David Cameron is that he looks as though he is talking what matters to voters - which so far he's shown no sign of doing.The Half-Blood Welshmanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05072936624444891100noreply@blogger.com