tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8278366793340877738.post5325778804908817143..comments2023-11-02T10:43:15.185+00:00Comments on DENVERSTROPE: Brown Conference Speech Lies, No 94Unknownnoreply@blogger.comBlogger4125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8278366793340877738.post-1826708437146894802009-09-30T20:19:34.765+01:002009-09-30T20:19:34.765+01:00I didn't mean to call you 'CB'. You ar...I didn't mean to call you 'CB'. You are HBW, of course. Je suis desole.Jon Lishmanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07272058035800593800noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8278366793340877738.post-10175433557745706992009-09-30T18:46:14.670+01:002009-09-30T18:46:14.670+01:00Whatever the details of the process, there can be ...Whatever the details of the process, there can be no justification whatsoever for erasing Major, the man who *did* start it all for heaven's sake, entirely from history (although, even this is debatable. Some might say it began in 1985 with Thatcher's Anglo-Irish Agreement, which certainly did not please the Unionists, so it must have been a good thing!). <br /><br />But "Started by Tony Blair," as Brown boasted? For pity's sake. And that frustration, at Brown's ridiculous, shameless revisionism, was meant to be the main theme of what was after all a little bit of a late night ramble :) <br /><br />The main theme was "lying".<br /><br />Anyway, cheers for the comment, CB - and glad you agree with me about Brown's other lie - itself one of many, many examples, some of which you mention in your final paragraph.<br /><br />Labour - and Brown particularly - need to be hammered for these.Jon Lishmanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07272058035800593800noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8278366793340877738.post-15784312950649450112009-09-30T18:46:04.191+01:002009-09-30T18:46:04.191+01:00I disagree - somewhat. It's worth remembering,...I disagree - somewhat. It's worth remembering, for instance, that the real key figures in the months running up to the Good Friday Agreement were, I believe, if memory serves, the Americans: Senator Mitchell (hence the "Mitchell Principles") and, of course, Bill Clinton. But Blair, Clinton, Mitchell or even Mowlam (who deserved more credit than Blair ever gave her and received about, er, none - surprise surprise) could have achieved none of this without Major's long rapprochement with the Irish, and his achieving two IRA ceasefires, the second of which held.<br /><br />I'll concede the point about the augmented influence of the Unionists in parliament because of the Major's slim majority, but I do not believe that they were somehow causing Major to 'stall' (stall what, his own policy?); that they were somehow holding him to ransom. That seems an oversimplification in what was, after all, a very complex affair with many other dimensions, such as, as you rightly say, the shifting position of Eire's leadership. As I said in the post, however, "history" will debate this more thoroughly as the distance from the events grows. I also said it should not be up to Brown (or Blair) to apportion credit, particularly to their own party.Jon Lishmanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07272058035800593800noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8278366793340877738.post-61683824053918023962009-09-30T17:11:16.697+01:002009-09-30T17:11:16.697+01:00I think you're maybe a bit harsh on Blair over...I think you're maybe a bit harsh on Blair over Northern Ireland. While Major had made substantial progress and laid the groundwork for much of the later achievement, his stalling on the issues of improved minority rights and more power for the Irish, caused by his need for Ulster Unionist backing in the House of Commons, also led to a resumption of violence in 1996 (Canary Wharf). <br /><br />It is also true to say that Major was a little unlucky with an Irish leadership that broadly sympathized with Sinn Fein. When Blair came in he was fortunate that Reynolds was also ousted and the less Republican-minded Bertie Ahern was willing to do business with him, but he also did work very hard and achieved a great deal - it didn't just fall into his lap. From that point of view, the Good Friday agreement was Blair's achievement rather than Major's.<br /><br />I agree totally about the disability discrimination act. You could also add the Welfare State (dates from 1912) the NHS (founded to all intents and purposes in 1943 by the Beveridge Report) and votes for women (enacted by the Conservatives in 1928) as changes that Labour likes to claim credit for that in reality had nothing to do with them. Plus ca change...The Half-Blood Welshmanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05072936624444891100noreply@blogger.com